World Model · podcast knowledge graph

This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)

2026-08-02 · 85 min · 37 entities

episode page audio

Asserted relationships

  • → references Logan Head person
    0.77
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://linkedin.com/in/logan-head
  • → references Rudyard Kipling person
    0.77
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudyard_Kipling
  • 0.77
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://amazon.com/Babel-Necessity-Violence-Translators-Revolution/dp/0063021439
  • → hosted by Lenny Rachitsky person
    0.55
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed author/publisher: Lenny Rachitsky
  • 0.50
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://amazon.com/Babel-Necessity-Violence-Translators-Revolution/dp/0063021439
  • 0.50
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://amazon.com/Babel-Necessity-Violence-Translators-Revolution/dp/0063021439
  • → works at Whatnot company
    0.48
    evidence rules-v4
    work at Whatnot
  • → works at Whatnot company
    0.48
    evidence rules-v4
    work at Whatnot
  • → discusses Technology company
    0.40
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed category: Technology
  • → discusses Business concept
    0.40
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed category: Business
  • → discusses Entrepreneurship concept
    0.40
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed category: Entrepreneurship
  • → references penname.co website
    0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://penname.co/
  • → references whatnot.com website
    0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://whatnot.com/
  • → references Product Management Theater Marty company
    0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://lennysnewsletter.com/p/product-management-theater-marty
  • → references twitch.tv website
    0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://twitch.tv/
  • → references Threads website
    0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://hex.tech/product/threads
  • → references Building Whatnot Tom Verrilli Bwkdc person
    0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://linkedin.com/pulse/building-whatnot-tom-verrilli-bwkdc
  • → references Service Nsw Mobile App person
    0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://service.nsw.gov.au/services/service-nsw-mobile-app
  • → references e-fish.com website
    0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://e-fish.com/

Entities found in this episode

persons 10

  • mentioned Logan Head person
    0.90
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://linkedin.com/in/logan-head
  • mentioned Rudyard Kipling person
    0.90
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudyard_Kipling
  • references Logan Head person
    0.77
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://linkedin.com/in/logan-head
  • references Rudyard Kipling person
    0.77
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudyard_Kipling
  • mentioned Lenny Rachitsky person
    0.70
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed author/publisher: Lenny Rachitsky
  • hosted by Lenny Rachitsky person
    0.55
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed author/publisher: Lenny Rachitsky
  • 0.45
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://linkedin.com/pulse/building-whatnot-tom-verrilli-bwkdc
  • mentioned Service Nsw Mobile App person
    0.45
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://service.nsw.gov.au/services/service-nsw-mobile-app
  • 0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://linkedin.com/pulse/building-whatnot-tom-verrilli-bwkdc
  • references Service Nsw Mobile App person
    0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://service.nsw.gov.au/services/service-nsw-mobile-app

websites 10

  • mentioned penname.co website
    0.45
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://penname.co/
  • mentioned whatnot.com website
    0.45
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://whatnot.com/
  • mentioned twitch.tv website
    0.45
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://twitch.tv/
  • mentioned Threads website
    0.45
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://hex.tech/product/threads
  • mentioned e-fish.com website
    0.45
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://e-fish.com/
  • references penname.co website
    0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://penname.co/
  • references whatnot.com website
    0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://whatnot.com/
  • references twitch.tv website
    0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://twitch.tv/
  • references Threads website
    0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://hex.tech/product/threads
  • references e-fish.com website
    0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://e-fish.com/

companys 7

  • mentioned Whatnot company
    0.60
    evidence rules-v4
    work at Whatnot
  • mentioned Technology company
    0.50
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed category: Technology
  • works at Whatnot company
    0.48
    evidence rules-v4
    work at Whatnot
  • works at Whatnot company
    0.48
    evidence rules-v4
    work at Whatnot
  • 0.45
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://lennysnewsletter.com/p/product-management-theater-marty
  • discusses Technology company
    0.40
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed category: Technology
  • 0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://lennysnewsletter.com/p/product-management-theater-marty

concepts 6

  • mentioned Business concept
    0.50
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed category: Business
  • mentioned Entrepreneurship concept
    0.50
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed category: Entrepreneurship
  • mentioned Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot concept
    0.42
    evidence rules-v4
    This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)
  • discusses Business concept
    0.40
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed category: Business
  • discusses Entrepreneurship concept
    0.40
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed category: Entrepreneurship
  • mentioned CPO concept
    0.35
    evidence rules-v4
    CPO

books 4

  • 0.90
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://amazon.com/Babel-Necessity-Violence-Translators-Revolution/dp/0063021439
  • 0.77
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://amazon.com/Babel-Necessity-Violence-Translators-Revolution/dp/0063021439
  • 0.50
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://amazon.com/Babel-Necessity-Violence-Translators-Revolution/dp/0063021439
  • 0.50
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)": https://amazon.com/Babel-Necessity-Violence-Translators-Revolution/dp/0063021439
Episode description as stored
Tom Verrilli is the chief product officer at Whatnot, a live shopping platform that’s become the fastest-growing U.S. marketplace business in history, with over $8 billion in GMV. Before joining Whatnot, Tom was CPO at Twitch and director of product growth at Twitter (during one of the most turbulent periods in the company’s history). In our in-depth conversation, we discuss: 1. Why Whatnot’s product team was founded on the premise “we regret that product management exists” 2. How AI is reshaping the PM role 3. What Tom looks for when hiring PMs 4. The shift toward senior ICs doing the work 5. How AI has transformed data science at Whatnot 6. Tom’s “play the accordion” mental model 7. Why “hire great people and get out of their way” fails 8. His biggest lessons from his time at Twitter — Brought to you by: WorkOS —Make your app enterprise-ready, with SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more Mercury —Radically different banking, now with Command — Episode transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/this-cpo-regrets-that-product-management — Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0 — Where to find Tom Verrilli: • X: https://x.com/tdrobbo • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-robertson-042 — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Introduction (02:40) “We regret that product management exists”: what it means and why (08:30) When specialization makes sense, and when it doesn’t (15:20) How Whatnot structures its PM org (17:28) What 31,832 PM applications revealed about the function (19:40) How to develop systems thinking (22:10) The shift to senior ICs doing IC work (32:26) Advice for PMs struggling in today’s market (35:22) How AI has transformed work at Whatnot (41:14) The data scientist problem (42:48) Which roles are trending up and down (44:48) What the product team of the future looks like (46:29) Why core PM skills are the most durable in an AI world (49:23) How to get the most out of the people you hire (53:32) Navigating the CPO-founder relationship (57:34) Advice for aspiring CPO’s (59:16) How to know when to stand firm and when to step back (01:01:38) Play the accordion: balancing strategic vision with fast iteration (01:06:35) Agentic commerce vs. live commerce (01:09:46) Lessons from Twitter (01:13:07) Failure corner (01:15:45) Lightning round and final thoughts — Referenced: • Whatnot: https://www.whatnot.com • Building, and Whatnot: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/building-whatnot-tom-verrilli-bwkdc • Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv • Why Netflix is betting on systems thinkers—not specialists—in the AI era | Elizabeth Stone (CPTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/netflix-cpto-on-ai-and-the-future • Peter Bailis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pbailis • Mike Krieger on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikekrieger • Anthropic’s CPO on what comes next | Mike Krieger (co-founder of Instagram): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropics-cpo-heres-what-comes-next • Ben Kus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benkus • Henry Shi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/henrythe9th • Hex Threads: https://hex.tech/product/threads • Product management theater | Marty Cagan (Silicon Valley Product Group): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/product-management-theater-marty • Grant LaFontaine on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/grantlafontaine • Logan Head on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/logan-head • Emmett Shear on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emmettshear • Kara Swisher on X: https://x.com/karaswisher • Jeff Bezos: Amazon and Blue Origin—Lex Fridman Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcWqzZ3I2cY • Star City on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/star-city/umc.cmc.2l8p785osmtmiyk64bh6tfde1 • For All Mank