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The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)

2024-09-15 · 83 min · 38 entities

episode page audio

Asserted relationships

  • → references Camille Fournier person
    0.77
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://linkedin.com/in/camille-fournier-9011812
  • → references What Got Here Wont There book
    0.77
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://amazon.com/What-Got-Here-Wont-There/dp/1401301304
  • → references When Things Fall Apart Difficult book
    0.77
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://amazon.com/When-Things-Fall-Apart-Difficult/dp/1611803438
  • → references skamille.medium.com website
    0.77
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://skamille.medium.com/
  • 0.77
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://amazon.com/Platform-Engineering-Technical-Product-Leaders/dp/1098153642
  • 0.77
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://amazon.com/Managers-Path-Leaders-Navigating-Growth/dp/1491973897
  • 0.77
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://amazon.com/Things-Every-Engineering-Manager-Should/dp/1492050903
  • 0.77
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://skamille.medium.com/avoiding-the-rewrite-trap-b1283b8dd39e
  • → authored Manager’s Path book
    0.62
    evidence rules-v4
    author of The Manager’s Path
  • → hosted by Lenny Rachitsky person
    0.55
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed author/publisher: Lenny Rachitsky
  • → works at RENT company
    0.50
    evidence rules-v4
    CTO of Rent
  • → works at RENT company
    0.50
    evidence rules-v4
    CTO of Rent
  • → discusses Technology company
    0.40
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed category: Technology
  • → discusses Business concept
    0.40
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed category: Business
  • → discusses Entrepreneurship concept
    0.40
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed category: Entrepreneurship
  • → references penname.co website
    0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://penname.co/
  • → references WHOOP company
    0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://whoop.com/
  • → references graphql.org website
    0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://graphql.org/
  • → references Claude 2 website
    0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://anthropic.com/news/claude-2

Entities found in this episode

books 12

  • mentioned What Got Here Wont There book
    0.90
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://amazon.com/What-Got-Here-Wont-There/dp/1401301304
  • 0.90
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://amazon.com/When-Things-Fall-Apart-Difficult/dp/1611803438
  • 0.90
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://amazon.com/Platform-Engineering-Technical-Product-Leaders/dp/1098153642
  • 0.90
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://amazon.com/Managers-Path-Leaders-Navigating-Growth/dp/1491973897
  • 0.90
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://amazon.com/Things-Every-Engineering-Manager-Should/dp/1492050903
  • references What Got Here Wont There book
    0.77
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://amazon.com/What-Got-Here-Wont-There/dp/1401301304
  • 0.77
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://amazon.com/When-Things-Fall-Apart-Difficult/dp/1611803438
  • 0.77
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://amazon.com/Platform-Engineering-Technical-Product-Leaders/dp/1098153642
  • 0.77
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://amazon.com/Managers-Path-Leaders-Navigating-Growth/dp/1491973897
  • 0.77
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://amazon.com/Things-Every-Engineering-Manager-Should/dp/1492050903
  • mentioned Manager’s Path book
    0.72
    evidence rules-v4
    author of The Manager’s Path
  • authored Manager’s Path book
    0.62
    evidence rules-v4
    author of The Manager’s Path

websites 10

  • mentioned skamille.medium.com website
    0.90
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://skamille.medium.com/
  • 0.90
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://skamille.medium.com/avoiding-the-rewrite-trap-b1283b8dd39e
  • references skamille.medium.com website
    0.77
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://skamille.medium.com/
  • 0.77
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://skamille.medium.com/avoiding-the-rewrite-trap-b1283b8dd39e
  • mentioned penname.co website
    0.45
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://penname.co/
  • mentioned graphql.org website
    0.45
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://graphql.org/
  • mentioned Claude 2 website
    0.45
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://anthropic.com/news/claude-2
  • references penname.co website
    0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://penname.co/
  • references graphql.org website
    0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://graphql.org/
  • references Claude 2 website
    0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://anthropic.com/news/claude-2

companys 7

  • mentioned RENT company
    0.62
    evidence rules-v4
    CTO of Rent
  • mentioned Technology company
    0.50
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed category: Technology
  • works at RENT company
    0.50
    evidence rules-v4
    CTO of Rent
  • works at RENT company
    0.50
    evidence rules-v4
    CTO of Rent
  • mentioned WHOOP company
    0.45
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://whoop.com/
  • discusses Technology company
    0.40
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed category: Technology
  • references WHOOP company
    0.38
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://whoop.com/

concepts 5

  • mentioned Business concept
    0.50
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed category: Business
  • mentioned Entrepreneurship concept
    0.50
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed category: Entrepreneurship
  • discusses Business concept
    0.40
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed category: Business
  • discusses Entrepreneurship concept
    0.40
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed category: Entrepreneurship
  • mentioned CTO concept
    0.35
    evidence rules-v4
    CTO

persons 4

  • mentioned Camille Fournier person
    0.90
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://linkedin.com/in/camille-fournier-9011812
  • references Camille Fournier person
    0.77
    evidence rules-v4
    Link in episode "The things engineers are desperate for PMs to understand | Camille Fournier (author of “The Manager’s Path,” ex-CTO at Rent the Runway)": https://linkedin.com/in/camille-fournier-9011812
  • mentioned Lenny Rachitsky person
    0.70
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed author/publisher: Lenny Rachitsky
  • hosted by Lenny Rachitsky person
    0.55
    evidence rules-v4
    Feed author/publisher: Lenny Rachitsky
Episode description as stored
Camille Fournier is the author of The Manager’s Path, which many consider the definitive guide for navigating one’s career path in tech. Camille was previously the CTO of Rent the Runway, VP of Technology at Goldman Sachs, Head of Platform Engineering at Two Sigma, and Global Head of Engineering and Architecture at JPMorgan Chase. She is about to release new newest book, Platform Engineering: A Guide for Technical, Product, and People Leaders . In our conversation, we discuss: • What product managers do that annoys engineers • Why major rewrites are a trap • Why you should have fewer one-on-ones • Strategies for organizing and working with platform teams • Tips for new managers • Advice for transitioning from individual contributor to manager • Much more — Brought to you by: • DX —A platform for measuring and improving developer productivity • CommandBar —AI-powered user assistance for modern products and impatient users • Coda —The all-in-one collaborative workspace — Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/engineering-leadership-camille-fournier — Where to find Camille Fournier: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/camille-fournier-9011812/ • Website: https://skamille.medium.com/ — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Camille’s background (02:17) Common annoyances between PMs and engineers (07:09) Avoiding the telephone game (08:05) Hoarding ideas and over-engineering (09:55) The importance of involving engineers in ideation (11:37) The middle-person dilemma (14:21) Rewriting systems: a big trap? (20:40) Engineering leadership lessons (36:02) Moving from IC to management (40:32) One-on-one meetings (45:10) Pushing beyond comfort zones (45:27) Building a balanced work culture (48:01) Effective time management strategies (54:15) Advice for platform team success (01:02:42) Platform team responsibilities (01:04:43) When to form a platform team (01:07:02) Thriving on a platform team (01:12:48) AI corner (01:17:03) Lightning round and final thoughts — Referenced: • Platform Engineering: A Guide for Technical, Product, and People Leaders : https://www.amazon.com/Platform-Engineering-Technical-Product-Leaders/dp/1098153642/ • The Manager’s Path: A Guide for Tech Leaders Navigating Growth and Change : https://www.amazon.com/Managers-Path-Leaders-Navigating-Growth/dp/1491973897 • 97 Things Every Engineering Manager Should Know: Collective Wisdom from the Experts : https://www.amazon.com/Things-Every-Engineering-Manager-Should/dp/1492050903 • Avoiding the Rewrite Trap: https://skamille.medium.com/avoiding-the-rewrite-trap-b1283b8dd39e • Levelsio on X: https://x.com/levelsio • Pieter Levels on the Lex Fridman Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFtjKbXKqbg • GraphQL: https://graphql.org/ • New Blue Sun by André 3000 on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/33Ek6daAL3oXyQIV1uoItD • Musk’s 5 Steps to Cut Internal Bureaucracy at Tesla and SpaceX: https://icecreates.com/insight/musk-s-5-steps-to-cut-internal-bureaucracy-at-tesla-and-spacex-you-may-say-it-s-his-algorithm/ • Ian Nowland on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/inowland/ • Studio Pulls ‘Megalopolis’ Trailer Using Fake Quotes from Famed Movie Critics: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/studio-pulls-megalopolis-trailer-using-fake-quotes-from-famed-movie-critics_n_66c74046e4b0f1ca469413c7 • Claude 2: https://www.anthropic.com/news/claude-2 • What Got You Here Won’t Get You There: How Successful People Become Even More Successful : https://www.amazon.com/What-Got-Here-Wont-There/dp/1401301304 • When Things Fall Apart: Heart Advice for Difficult Times : https://www.amazon.com/When-Things-Fall-Apart-Difficult/dp/1611803438 • Alien: Romulus : https://www.imdb.com/title/tt18412256/ • Whoop: https://www.whoop.com — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/ . For inquiries about sponsor